2004 ILLINOIS OPEN SERIES

[Jon Brakel]

2004 Illinois Open #1 Streamwood Starter Payouts

PDGA reported payouts as a percentage of entry fees minus PDGA per player fees. CTP value is spread between pro and am divisions per PDGA reporting regulations. That is why the pro payout is higher than 100%. Actual cash payout to the pros was 100% after deducting for the $2 per player C-tier PDGA fee.

Saturday Amateurs: 142%
Saturday Pros: 110%

Sunday Amateurs: 135%
Sunday Pros: 109%

I hope that everyone enjoyed themselves at the Streamwood Starter. To me that is more important than the payout. However, I think we deliver a good value for your entry fee and I wanted to share the numbers with the people that read this thread. If you had fun at Streamwood, I invite you out to Crystal Lake on July 24th and 25th. If you missed Streamwood but enjoy a good tournament experience, we'd be glad to have you at Crystal Lake.

[mirth]

I've got a few photos of the final 4 at Streamwood that aren't bad. I'd be happy to upload them to a gallery here somewhere if I can get instructions/access, etc.

Can someone give Damon the access and instructions? I think the access has changed since the last time I used it.

Done earlier today.

[damonshort]

I've got a few photos of the final 4 at Streamwood that aren't bad. I'd be happy to upload them to a gallery here somewhere if I can get instructions/access, etc.

Can someone give Damon the access and instructions? I think the access has changed since the last time I used it.

Done earlier today.

thanks Mirth; The gallery's up, for some reason still as 'untitled' although I gave it a name...  

[mirth]

Fixed. You had renamed it but never gave it a title...

[Myk]

Saturday Amateurs: 142%
Saturday Pros: 110%

Sunday Amateurs: 135%
Sunday Pros: 109%

I appreciate your percentage of payouts.  It seems very generous.  I was wondering if we could have some more specific numbers, i.e. expenses versus income.  I'm not questioning anything, just making sure everyone understands how a tourney/series should be run.

[Jon Brakel]

Saturday Amateurs: 142%
Saturday Pros: 110%

Sunday Amateurs: 135%
Sunday Pros: 109%

I appreciate your percentage of payouts.  It seems very generous.  I was wondering if we could have some more specific numbers, i.e. expenses versus income.  I'm not questioning anything, just making sure everyone understands how a tourney/series should be run.

Bruce, Brett and I run the financials on paper during the morning round so that we can figure out how many CTPs we want to run in the afternoon. There's a lot of stuff that we figure into it and it would be difficult to recreate that here. I posted the PDGA figures because they come right off the PDGA financials page.

Myk, I wouldn't mind going over the financials with you and Mirth (if he's interested) so that you can see how we do our events. It might help you prepare for your events. But I'd rather do that in person.

I also don't mind sharing the bottom line. After running afternoon CTPs and giving our volunteers some gifts, we had $120 for the Jr. Girls league and $120 for the IOS overalls. That will almost pay for the overall trophies, so hopefully at Crystal Lake we will have raised the money we need for overall trophies.  

[Myk]

The $120 for the Jr. Girls league was raised out of merch sales?  Only reason I ask is because there is no information about where proceeds from the series will go on the site or on the flyers.  I know that you and Bruce are very adamant about making sure players know where their money is going when they play tourneys, so I'm just trying to help.

[CEValkyrie]

I know that you and Bruce are very adamant about making sure players know where their money is going when they play tourneys, so I'm just trying to help.

The entry fee money spent comes right back to the players. It's advertised 100% payouts.

Saturday Amateurs: 142%
Saturday Pros: 110%

Sunday Amateurs: 135%
Sunday Pros: 109%




In the process, the Waterford Girls made $120.00 & the overall series collected $120.00 to pay for overall prizes.


Jon,
    Do you have those sheets that had the divisonal breakdown of payouts? If i'm not mistaken, the first place advanced for 18 players walked away with $150.00 brass cash. This may help clear up how the payouts were if it were listed.

[Bruce Brakel]

My notes look like cash sales showed about $248 in profit, but the cash sales were not segregated from the overall tournament financials for a particular purpose.  Profit on cash sales was part of the profitability of the event.  The wholesale/retail on am prizes was the other part of the profitability of the event.  Obviously our fat payouts are a big drag on the overall profitability of the event, but we are not trying to maximize profit.  We are trying to maximize value to the players while returning something to the people working their asses off to putt on the event.

PDGA B-tier standards would have allowed us to pay back to the amateurs 100% of their entry fee in prizes, trophies and CTPs after deducting the $3 PDGA fee.  We paid back about 137%.  PDGA C-tier standards would have allowed us to pay back the pros 80% after deducting their $2 fee.  We did 109% because the PDGA spreadsheet prorates the value of the CTPs and trophies.  Otherwise it was 100%.

In spite of our generous payouts, the event was profitable.  In other words, after paying the PDGA for sanctioning, insurance and players fees, after paying the trophy girl for making trophies, after paying me for the brass cash at a 50% discount [the brass cash is "the prizes"; I trade brass cash for discs, towels, hats, etc.], and after paying every other expense, there was still money in Jon's pocket.  Some of that I took home to the Waterford Junior Girls Club; some of that went to overall trophies, and some of it went to all-day volunteers, some of it went to the other people who worked the tournament.  

This event was a Jon/Brett/Bruce event, meaning we ran the type of tournament we would like to play which, incidentally, benefited 75 other players as well.  If you would like to see more tournaments where the amateurs get 137% of their entry fee back in prizes, trophies and CTPs, please play our events.  

One last thing:  if there is anyone out there who would like to make money by raising outside cash sponsorship, talk to us.  We'd be happy to have a commissioned cash sponsorship coordinator on the team.  All cash sponsorship raised net of commission would be paid to the pro purse, unless the sponsor designated otherwise.

[Jon Brakel]

I know that you and Bruce are very adamant about making sure players know where their money is going when they play tourneys, so I'm just trying to help.

OK, here's my short philosophy on disc golf tournaments.

TDs should post on their flyers what their intended payout is going to be. They should then follow thru and payout at least that amount or percent or however they presented it on the flyer. If the TDs intended payout is less than 100%, then the TD should say on the flyer where the rest of the money is going. Whether its a course fund raiser, money for a disc golf club or to the TD. If it's a "professional" TD and they take a 20% fee off the top, then I think that should be on the flyer. Players should know what value they will get for their entry fee. In addition TDs need to make sure that they are pricing their prizes at a reasonable retail level, otherwise the percentage payout doesn't matter. If a TD pays out at or above the level that they advertised and they have money left over, then it's the TDs discretion where the rest of that money goes unless they have advertised some kind of fund raiser.

That is most of my disc golf tournament philosophy, although I have to say that I keep refining it in my head. I continue to evaluate what I think is fair. I have no control over how other TDs run their tournaments, nor should I. The above is just what I think TDs should do, and I am attempting to lead by example.

At the Bruce and Jon events and at the Bruce, Brett and Jon events we have been advertising 100% payouts. We know going in that we are low balling the Am payout. Since we don't know how many Ams are going to show up at any one event, we can say 100% and then adjust upward once we run the morning financials. I think 137% amateur payout is high enough that our players realize that we are running this for the players. I know our pro players appreciate the 100% pro payout because several of them have e-mailed me thanking me for running the event.

[Jon Brakel]

Full results from 2004 IOS #1 Streamwood Starter are up on the Streamwood page. I included individual payouts in case you wanted to see them.  

[CEValkyrie]

Thanks Jon!! That results page looks sweet & makes my calculating of points very easy. I'll have those done in the next day or two.

[CEValkyrie]

Attached is a table with the Illinois Open Series Points after the Streamwood Starter.

[Bruce Brakel]

Communication Director Terry Calhoun was asking about IOS #1 today, but not in his official capacity as communication director but in his less official capacity as the old man I was whupping on his home course!  I said at some point in the conversation, "Jon and I are starting to realize that the amateurs want to be ripped off.  We don't know why they want to be ripped off but the trends are unmistakable."  I then pointed out a half dozen amateur rip-off events that have huge attendance year after year.  "Anyway, it puts us in a quandry because our disc golf philosophy is to do well-run events that we would want to play, under the assumption that that is what anyone would want to play.  But in fact, they flock to events where the player pack is a tube of KY jelly and instructions on how to bend over, and are totally blase about 137% payouts."

Terry quoted Rule #1 and we both laughed.

[Bruce Brakel]

Anyway, IOS #2 trophies are done and boxed up.  If you play in a micro division and would like to see trophies go to second or third, trophy sponsorship is much cheaper than you would imagine.  

There was something else...

I'm getting old.  But it beats dying young.  

Oh, I was just going to point out that the amateur payouts get fatter the more people show up.  There are fixed costs that we have to cover that become smaller on a percentage basis when there are more people, like sanctioning and insurance and trophies.  

Crystal Lake is probably the most fun of the three courses in the series.  Invite a friend.  

[Todd. Fanning]

I was just wondering if the Streamwood Starter would be counted on my rating when they update it soon?

[Jon Brakel]

I was just wondering if the Streamwood Starter would be counted on my rating when they update it soon?

It should be. I heard the deadline for the next cutoff was going to be the Friday after Streamwood, so I got the PDGA reports done by then. I'm also fairly certain we had enough ratings generators although I didn't actually look it up.

[D]

Todd is concerned he'll have to shoot Adv. at Crystal Lake...

Hahaha Baaaaaggger!!  

 

[Todd. Fanning]

No im not concered, and im not a bagger, im right where i should be, your the bagger. Dan will agree with me on that one

[Dan Michler]

I think you guys both suck and should play the Recreational division with me at Crystal Lake