2004 Presidential Elections

[A new guy no more]

Jim,
I need to amend my comment on the UN.  The UN does have one accomplishment.  It does do a relatively good job of distributing food and aid (to a large extent paid for by US taxpayers) to poor areas of the world.  When it comes to intervening in genocide, nuclear proliferation and world peace they are a dismal failure.  This is not my Bush era observance or even Clinton era observance.  How many millions of people have ruthless dictators slaughtered as the UN watched?

Please carefully read and understand the Bush Social Security proposal. Unfortunately the mainstream press primarily reports on the lies of the left and soundbites that totally misrepresent the proposal. Bush wants to allow the option of investing a small percentage of an individual's payments SS in their choice of an investment plan.  Today's seniors and those who don't want to participate don't have to. Liberals always talk about allowing "choice" but not when it takes away from their total control of how much and when you get your retirement money.
It takes a lot of research and calculations but I encourage you to try this "what if" calculation. Using the actual amounts that you and your employer has already paid into the FICA and a conservative estimate of future payments up to your retirement date, build a spreadsheet. Using a variety of possible investment growth rates such as CD rates, average stock market growth rates, etc., run a few scenarios of the future value of those investments assuming all dollars could be invested in SS. I did and I was shocked. The value, depending on the growth rate assumption, can be in many hundreds of thousands or well over a million. Why not allow our kids to start building a much more comfortable retirement than SS provides. I know why the liberals don't like the idea.  They won't control the seniors.

Job shrinkage and job growth both tend to lag economic changes.  The recession of 2000 started in the summer of Clinton's last year.  The drop in jobs (aggravated by 9-11) declined during the early Bush years. Fortunately the Bush tax cuts are helping us pull out of the Clinton recession and new jobs will follow.  Note that productivity has increased already.  Companies resist hiring until they are sure the economy has turned around so production per employee increases.  That will be followed by job growth.  It is not the government's job to create jobs. Capitalism creates jobs. Government's job is to create an environment to allow the creation of jobs.

The Dems do not have a lock on liberalism. Please share that judge's name so that I too can voice my displeasure with him/her at the next election. I look for that kind of info to zap judges like that.  I contend, however, that the percentage of liberalism in Democrat appointed or elected judges are significantly higher. Just look at the rulings coming from liberal meccas like the people's republic of California Vs rulings from a state like Texas. And yes, I considered our past Governor a liberal and would not vote for that guy. What's ironic in your statement is that it is liberal Democrats who believe marijuana be legalized.

Note that I think that Bush is much too liberal and I disagree with a lot of his ideas.

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-- Ronald Reagan (1986)

[mirth]

Whats ironic about liberal Dems wanting legalization of soft drugs?

About the SS discussion, any intelligent worker who is not a product of the 50's knows not to trust their retirement to Social Security alone. I divert a portion of each paycheck to an IRA. Why should I want the government to try to replicate that for me? I don't like the idea because the Federal government should be making safe, moderate interest bearing investments with my FICA dollars and not chancing it in the markets.

[Jon Brakel]

...Please carefully read and understand the Bush Social Security proposal. Unfortunately the mainstream press primarily reports on the lies of the left and soundbites that totally misrepresent the proposal. Bush wants to allow the option of investing a small percentage of an individual's payments SS in their choice of an investment plan.  Today's seniors and those who don't want to participate don't have to. Liberals always talk about allowing "choice" but not when it takes away from their total control of how much and when you get your retirement money...

There is a common misconception that Social Security is a retirement plan. It is not. A small benefit of the Social Security system is as a retirement supplement. Much of the Social Security money that is taken out of our paychecks and that our employers also contribute to, goes toward other benefits. One of those benefits is for surviving spouses and children. No one should think of the Social Security system as a retirement plan. It was never designed or intended to be such.

[jim]

NEW GUY did not directly answer any of my questions or claims.  How common.

9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!!  Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly.  Oh, and you probably still believe Bush didn't plan that terrible attack.  Spin spin spin.

I admit that I am much too ignorant to predict stocks and futures, and I believe most of people who make a living at it are more ignorant than I am. I'll have my accountant do your spreadsheet. Then I'll give it to my kids. When they're 40, they can check the math and get a great deal of comfort from your fuzzy math as they slowly die impoverished in the nuclear fallout Republicans will undoubtedly bring upon us all.

Sigh. Lets look at Bush's resume so far:

Fewer job opportunities.
An insurmountable deficit (which can be wiped out in 2 years by taxing republicans who make over 500,000).
Higher cost for imported goods without taxing exporters proportionately.
Higher property taxes.
Higher cost of living.
Screwed up Medicare.
Screwed up Medicaid.
The Patriot Act.
More Americans dying by the day (because he won't allow the UN to do its job)
Guantanimo Bay:
What about the 700 CIVILIANS IMPRISONED on Guantanamo Bay, living in cages, being denied the most basic HUMAN RIGHTS - WITHOUT BEING CHARGED ANY CRIME AT ALL!!!  They are simply being "questioned". They have no access to lawyers, family, or toilets. Bush said that this was necessary in the fight against terrorism. Rumsfeld defiantly stated that these "criminals" need to be detained. AGAIN - THEY ARE NOT CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. Some are from Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Qatar, and even Kuwait. Many are juveniles.

So, stop hiding behind your conservative flag and shellgame-arithmetic, and take a look at those people who make LESS than 35,000 a year - you won't find them - because they are the ones overseas fighting to control Bush's oil. And their relatives at home need to beg the govt for money just to make the rent.  THAT IS NOT THE TYPE OF COUNTRY I WANT MY KIDS TO LIVE IN.  If I could, I'd be gone yesterday.

And yes, I know I ramble, but at least I'm fun to read.....

[mirth]

Christ Jim, you get rabies overnight?!

[Jon Brakel]

...9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!!  Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly...
And yes, I know I ramble, but at least I'm fun to read.....

One third of the people at our "big sister" company lost their jobs as a direct result of 9/11 and we lost a few. Now our company is being sold as a direct result of 9/11 and probably a lot more will lose their jobs.

A "fun" read? Maybe not. Entertaining, sure!    

[A new guy no more]

(RE: NEW GUY did not directly answer any of my questions or claims. How common.)
Sorry I though I did.

(RE:9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!! Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly. )

I guess the airline, limo, taxi, hotel, travel agent, theme park, restaurant, sky cap, and car rental people in just the travel industry that no longer had customers and jobs don't count.

(RE: Oh, and you probably still believe Bush didn't plan that terrible attack. Spin spin spin.)

OK, now I realize you putting me on.  Although I too heard that from the aliens the last time I was abducted.

(RE: I admit that I am much too ignorant to predict stocks and futures, and I believe most of people who make a living at it are more ignorant than I am. I'll have my accountant do your spreadsheet. Then I'll give it to my kids. When they're 40, they can check the math and get a great deal of comfort from your fuzzy math as they slowly die impoverished in the nuclear fallout Republicans will undoubtedly bring upon us all.)

Seriously, run the math.  The stock market does have ups and downs but over 40-45 years the average is a good. If, like liberals say it's risky investment, ask them what they do.  Gore had $½ million in oil stocks. If the market drops for 40 years the country is toast anyway long before then.

(RE: Sigh. Lets look at Bush's resume so far:)

Fewer job opportunities. –
The Clinton recession is over, jobs will be back.

An insurmountable deficit (which can be wiped out in 2 years by taxing republicans who make over 500,000).)
Yes that's a problem. He is spending way too much on entitlement programs like perscription drugs.

Higher cost for imported goods without taxing exporters proportionately.
What??

Higher property taxes.
You should file a complaint, I don't get a property tax bill from the Federal Government. My local property taxes do keep going up as teachers and other government workers receive raises.

Higher cost of living.
You might want to check figures.  The inflation rate is very low.  You may not recall the Democrat Carter double digit inflation.

Screwed up Medicare.
Yes, I agree, each of his budgets has added more dollars to Medicare and now prescription drugs.

Screwed up Medicaid.
I don't think so. It was well screwed up long before Bush.

The Patriot Act.
We don't need to fight domestic terrorism? Liberals hate this but offer NOTHING that would protect Americans.

More Americans dying by the day (because he won't allow the UN to do its job) Just exactly, in detail, do you think the UN would do?

Guantanimo Bay:
There was one proposal that I heard that each of these detainees be released to the recognizance of a Democrat Senator or House member. Each would be responsible for their actions.
And you may want to check your facts.  700 citizens and no toilets? Wow.

[Bruce Brakel]

There is a common misconception that Social Security is a retirement plan. It is not. A small benefit of the Social Security system is as a retirement supplement. Much of the Social Security money that is taken out of our paychecks and that our employers also contribute to, goes toward other benefits. One of those benefits is for surviving spouses and children. No one should think of the Social Security system as a retirement plan. It was never designed or intended to be such.

Moreover, it is not as if the money taken out of your paycheck "for social security" is a different color of money or is kept in a different vault from the money taken out of your paycheck for everything else.  

The FICA tax is just a federal tax as is the income tax.  Every employed American pays an 7.65% flat tax he knows about [FICA] and an 7.65% flat tax he probably does not know about [FICA--Employer contribution].  [The self-employed pay a 15.3% flat tax on the amount of self-employed income they choose to report!]  That money is not put in a lock box or saved and invested for your retirement.  Since the government has always run a budget deficit, that money is spent before it is received.

[jim]

Mirth, you betcha!  My momma had dem rabies babies!!!

New Guy, you obviously have a fine intellect, so i won't mess with you anymore.  You seem to read more than I and know your way around finances.

However, I do believe Bush planned or at least was previously aware of the tragedy of the Twin Towers. And I do believe the human race is decended from aliens.  They're still laughing about the Bible...........

The Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon.  I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!

[Jon Brakel]

The Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon.  I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!

I don't think the Patriot Act has risen to the proportions of the height of McCarthyism, but I think the analogy is valid. I had always assumed that much of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, but since most of the people that have been effected by it are not protected by the constitution, we might not find out in a court of law.

[mirth]

The Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon.  I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!

I don't think the Patriot Act has risen to the proportions of the height of McCarthyism, but I think the analogy is valid. I had always assumed that much of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, but since most of the people that have been effected by it are not protected by the constitution, we might not find out in a court of law.

Well, portions of it have been ruled unconstitutional....

[jim]

I agree that most people have the misconception that Social Security was established to be their personal retirement fund, even if they live off of welfare most of their lives. Too bad.

I was talking with my 77-year-old father last night.  He said he felt very used by our nation.  First, he's born into the Great Depression. Got his first job at 14 and immediately started paying into SocSec. Then he served in WWII.  Then he served during the Korean conflict. Then he worked for the Navy as a civilian for 20+ years.  He paid into SocSec for 55 years!  The amount he receives each year covers his property taxes, and maybe his cable bill, and not much more. He feels that his generation was used:
-to fight in and help pay for 3 wars (oops, sorry, one War and two "conflicts")
-to build this country up during the 50s and 60s while receiving generally low wages
-as a stepping stone for the Baby Boomers to grow on
-to grow/feed the Medicare monster
-to now support GenX

He feels ripped off that Congress keeps borrowing from Social Security with no intention of renumeration, and he worries about me and his grandkids that we'll be used up more than he was, without anywhere to turn in our old age.
He's right.
The USA screwed MILLIONS of people who have been railroaded in dependency on SocSec and Medicare with no alternatives except private savings. My generation will suffer atrocities far worse before it is over.

Lies!  Deception!  Greed!  Murder!  Hey, sounds like just what Whitey did to the Native Americans. And the Africans. And the Chinese immigrant workers in the 1800s.  (Who do you think built the railraods - and where did they go? - to dozens of unmarked mass graves from Missouri to Nevada!)

Why does this young white man sound so bitter, you ask?
Because this country was built on the blood and bodies of millions of innocent people - and it is still not enough for some "conservatives".  We are a hypocritical, judgmental nation of thieves, and force people of all colors to act unnaturally toward each other.  Why? For freedom and peace?
No.
For paper money.
For land.
Because they can.

The history we have taught has been written by Caucasian Christian Europeans.
Liars all!

[Jon Brakel]

Jim, our fathers are the same age, and now social security pays them about the same amount. My father isn't bitter. He thinks this country provided him a good chance at a decent life (and this even though he lost a brother to WWII and his father to the depression of The Depression). Do you think that the social security system should be turned into the personal retirement system? If you think that people our fathers' age should be paid more, where should the money come from?

[New Guy]

If the poor or lower paid, less educated, and struggling tend to vote Democrat and the higher paid, better educated, comfortable and safe tend to vote Republican; guess which party would tend to use policies that keep people poor or lower paid, less educated and struggling to make ends meet to protect their base? Keep them dependant on goverment and they have to keep voting for you.  

[M. cephalus]

Please explain how that makes any sense whatsoever.

[jim]

My point about SocSec is not that we should depend on it for sole retirement income, but that many people now have to, and that it is insufficient return compared to what is contributed by the average taxpayer.
If Congress borrows against SocSec again, as it has in the past, I doubt my generation's contributions will get a decent return on investment, so to speak.

The rest of my banter is truly heartfelt, even if not presented in a serious manner. So why don't I leave?  I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.

[Jon Brakel]

If Congress borrows against SocSec again, as it has in the past, I doubt my generation's contributions will get a decent return on investment, so to speak.

There is no money to "borrow". There is no social security money. Its all just government money. As Bruce pointed out, the government doesn't seperate its money for particular uses. Its just money in, money out. Also, its a tax, not an investment, so you shouldn't expect a "return".

[Jon Brakel]

The rest of my banter is truly heartfelt, even if not presented in a serious manner. So why don't I leave?  I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.

I'm glad I don't share your feelings. Although a couple of Brakel brothers did share your type of feelings about 150 years ago and left Germany to come here. I'm glad they did.    

[Jon Brakel]

So why don't I leave?  I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.

So, are you waiting for the mother ship to return?  

[jim]

Ever see "Muppets From Space"?
Well, I love my friends, but I'd be spacedust, baby!