The Future of Disc Golf?

[Jon Brakel]

Having grown up in politics and making my own political connections, I can absolutely tell you that the general belief among politicians and the public is that disc golf players are nothing more than weed smokers.  They also believe that the sport doesn't contribute anything to the public which is why Adler hasn't replaced their baskets for years. 

I think a larger problem is not the image of disc golf but that so many people don't know that it exists. I think identifying the human interest stories in disc golf and getting those stories in the media would be a great way to capture an audience that wouldn't normally hear about disc golf.

[Dan Michler]

Corses and players will come if the money is there.

Cart before horse.

More players will build a base of consumers. Sponsorship is just another form of advertising. Advertisers don't invest in sports with the hopes that one day there will be enough interest to pay off for them. Advertisers buy consumers attention. Increase the disc golf consumer base and sponsors will follow. There is no short cut to this formula.

Jon, this is the exact point I've been trying to make to no avail.  Some people just expect money to be poured into disc golf on good faith alone I guess.  Thats just not how successful companies operate.

[Jon Brakel]

Corses and players will come if the money is there.

Cart before horse.

More players will build a base of consumers. Sponsorship is just another form of advertising. Advertisers don't invest in sports with the hopes that one day there will be enough interest to pay off for them. Advertisers buy consumers attention. Increase the disc golf consumer base and sponsors will follow. There is no short cut to this formula.

Jon, this is the exact point I've been trying to make to no avail.  Some people just expect money to be poured into disc golf on good faith alone I guess.  Thats just not how successful companies operate.

Doesn't it seem like we have this argument every couple of years on this forum also?

I have an example of how throwing money does not make a sport larger or more popular. Jai alai. In the 1950's or 60's this sport was brought to the U.S. from Latin America. It had a huge fan and supporter in the U.S. who also happened to be hugely wealthy. He spent millions on the sport in the form of advertising and sponsorship. He even bought TV time to show matches on network TV. For a brief time it was a staple on ABC during the winter between football season and basketball playoffs/baseball season. However, it was not on TV because of ratings. The guy bought the television time and produced the show with his own company. Once he had spent all the money that his Dad would allow him to, Jai alai faded to a niche sport only in those states that allowed Jai alai gambling (might only be Florida now).

We need to do the things that will build the sport. Build the sport and the money will come. Participate in tournaments, join your local club, teach people how to play, tell friends about the sport, support the building of new courses in whatever way you can.

Last night I was watering the bushes in our back yard and I took that as an opportunity to wash down the patio chairs and the Ching portable basket that I have. The 70+ year old guy that lives behind us was tinkering in his yard and looked up and asked "Is that some kind of disc golf basket?" We've come a long way! Just a few years ago that guy would not have known what disc golf is, what a basket is, nor that it is even called DISC golf!

[Sr.]

Having grown up in politics and making my own political connections, I can absolutely tell you that the general belief among politicians and the public is that disc golf players are nothing more than weed smokers.  They also believe that the sport doesn't contribute anything to the public which is why Adler hasn't replaced their baskets for years. 

I think a larger problem is not the image of disc golf but that so many people don't know that it exists. I think identifying the human interest stories in disc golf and getting those stories in the media would be a great way to capture an audience that wouldn't normally hear about disc golf.

That is right Jon. After working a few booths at some fairs to promote the game we noticed several people who had no idea the game even existed. Exposure is really needed for this game!

[pdga#7648]

I love this game as much as anyone here. But I am a realist. If you guys think some miracle is going to happen, to where this sport is as big ( or even a quarter ) as the PGA, you are all sadly mistaken. No matter how much exposure, this game will never be a sport to get rich from.

I would consider this more of a hobby than a sport. Sports you train for, lift, run , diet, excercise. None of those will make you a better golfer(but putting everyday, or practicing drives does). Any Joe Blow, 100 lbs overweight, can be good at this game.

Maybe if the PDGA enforced a dress code for all Tier events, that would make someone pay some attention.

[pdga#7648]

and how much more exposure do you guys think we need?


PDGA has 45,421 members




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PGA has just over 28,000 members



disc golf has almost twice as many members.



why doesn't the PDGA kick in some of the money we pay in each year for renewals? if half of the members renew next year, that's over 1 million dollars. what does the PDGA need all that money for? Don't they get money from each tournament ran? I'm sure they have to pay their staff, but maybe if they kicked in some of that renewal money at tournys, more people would play.
What real benifits do we get for renewing besides the $10.00 off for being current at each event? We get to see our ratings? most people don't care about those anyway.
PDGA, INNOVA, DISCRAFT, all are multimillion dollar companies. Maybe one of them could kick in $20,000 added for a tourny purse.

[pickax]

Fact check: There are only 14,027 members in the PDGA currently.

[Chris K]

I agree with Jon not many people even heard of diskgolf at my work. I ask them to come out and play, they do one time and that's it. They say " yeah I can throw a Frisbee, lets go play" then reality sets in at the course. They throw 100 feet and it flares off to the left. I throw and they are like ok I'm just going to walk with you ok ?. The learning curb is just as high in disk as it is in ball. Most of the time peeps get hurt trying to throw far. They can't figure out you need to grip the disk really hard to keep your arm from ripping out of its socket. I used to love to play ball golf until Tiger Woods came around and all of the sudden everyone had to play golf and the greens fees went thru the roof even for twilight. The stuff about the pot is just a copout just as many peeps playing ball golf smoke and drink, as a madder of fact I see more drunks on the ball course. This game is relatively new, give it a chance. We need courses like Elk Grove for the newbie's. You take a new golfer to Streamwood and I don't think they will be back soon. Man I love this game, I'll do my best to spread the word.  

[pdga#7648]

drinking is legal. smoking pot is not. big difference


and this is not relatively new. 34 years old, is not somewhat new! Disc Golf Association was formed in 1976

[pdga#7648]

Fact check: There are only 14,027 members in the PDGA currently.

as I am sure, not all 28,000 are still current in the PGA

[pickax]

Fact check: There are only 14,027 members in the PDGA currently.

as I am sure, not all 28,000 are still current in the PGA

But then your financial calculations are way off.

if half of the members renew next year, that's over 1 million dollars.

[Jon Brakel]

Comparing the PGA members to the PDGA members would be like comparing the NBA members to the basketball league members at the local PD or YMCA. I think for golf the USGA is the common amateur organization, although I think very few golfers are members as a percentage of all golfers.

[pdga#7648]

I was simply saying that with over 45,000 members, how much more exposure do you think we need? 45,000 people signed up with the PDGA, I'm sure to play events, not to just be part of something.

Hell, I joined in 1994, as # 7648, so in 16 years, almost 40,000 new members have joined. People know about the sport already, just alot don't care about it enough to give money towards it.


we all just need to realize this sport will never be as big as we want it money wise. we just need to continue to play for the love of the game. 

[Sr.]

drinking is legal. smoking pot is not. big difference


and this is not relatively new. 34 years old, is not somewhat new! Disc Golf Association was formed in 1976

I'm not a advocate for it but realistically pot smoking is everywhere. Not just disc golf. Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, and some of your local Sheriffs smoke weed nowadays. It's unfortunate that disc golf gets the bad wrap more than other sports. If curling can make the Olympics why not Disc Golf?

[Chainmeister]

drinking is legal. smoking pot is not. big difference


and this is not relatively new. 34 years old, is not somewhat new! Disc Golf Association was formed in 1976

Maybe not so big a difference in today's world.I used to play ball golf.  Drinking is rampant with hackers.  Most golf outings are fraternity parties with sticks, balls and carts.  They are scary events. There is plenty of pot on the golf course.  At the upper levels the players are serious and are stone cold sober. For the most part this is the case with disc golf.  Sure, we all know legendary players who seem to excell when drunk or high but this is the exception.  Do players indulge after the game, or tournament is over? Sure.  Ball golf?  Hey, the 19th hole is a part of the lexicon. The difference, our sister game is more established and the 19th hole is held in the course's own cocktail lounge.  Disc golf has no such luxury.  The parking lot serves as the 19th hole.

indulgence whether drinking, smoking or otherwise, is not the reason why disc golf gets scant media attention.  There is plenty of that in plenty of other sports. snowboarding was mentioned earlier in this thread. The game by its nature is not exciting in the same way snowboarding or X-Games type sports or mixed martial arts would be. The game is more sedate. Its a thinking game. The only visual hook is the fact that there are flying circles. As I mentioned before, there is not the same sex appeal as beach volleyball or soccer (just ask any woman what she thinks of soccer player's bodies).  Ball golf is not sexy either.  However, it has been around for a long time and has long since emerged from the fringe. Lots of people play it.  

Disc golf has been steadily growing over the past few years This is the right path.  More and more people including Jon's neighbor are aware of it.  This will lead to more people wanting to watch adn more demand for the game.  It will eventually make it to the airwaves.  If webcasts can improve we will be able to show the excitement and thrill of the game to more and more people.  It is a young sport. DGA is really a manufacturer.  I played disc golf in the 70's and have a Whammo Moonlighter.  We were an extreme minority then.  We are a lesser one now.

Every sport needs a story and more importantly, a star.  The Champ is a star.  Barry is a star.  However, you cannot compare them to Tiger Woods in terms of media appeal.  There is no comparison to Shawn White.  Nikko, on the other hand, may have some of that appeal.  Its time for him, his hair,  and Gateway to seek some local St. Louis area marketing and see if it can grow. Eventaually people will want to see the kid with the dreds who can throw it a mile and hit a basket from far away.  I thought that when Feldberg went on the Letterman show it was a step in the right direction. Maybe Avery should go on Survivor. In that light, maybe more of a "badboy"image would help grow the sport. When baseball was a younger sport we loved to hear about the Babe being drunk and full of hot dogs and then slugging home runs.  The game grew when he was involved. I am saying that a little tongue in cheek.

Regardless of the growth I agree that disc golf may never be a sport that you can really play without having a day job.  I do not foresee many people making a living at it for a long time. At best, pros may be able to aspire to make a living as course pros and compete in a  few tournaments, promote events and invest in the game...I foresee The Terry Millers of the world having a better chance to make a living off the sport than the Feldbergs.  .  

[pdga#7648]

Sr. I'm not saying that disc golf is the only sport where pot smoking is done alot. I am just saying that the disc golf family has been tarnished as dope smokers, hippies. That is why we don't see the BIG MONEY being thrown at this sport. That is the bottom line, no matter who here beleives it. Am I happy about it? No not at all, but my eyes are open, and I see what goes on in between rounds at any event. at least 10 cars have golfers in them, blazing up. If I can see it, I'm sure others do as well.

I know this, but I still play between 12-15  sanctioned tournaments each year, because I love the game and the competition.
I would love to be able to quit my 60 hour a week job, to play disc every weekend and be set financially, but that will never happen, for me, or probably not for any Open player on the NT unless their family  already has money.  

[Sr.]

drinking is legal. smoking pot is not. big difference


and this is not relatively new. 34 years old, is not somewhat new! Disc Golf Association was formed in 1976

Maybe not so big a difference in today's world.I used to play ball golf.  Drinking is rampant with hackers.  Most golf outings are fraternity parties with sticks, balls and carts.  They are scary events. There is plenty of pot on the golf course.  At the upper levels the players are serious and are stone cold sober. For the most part this is the case with disc golf.  Sure, we all know legendary players who seem to excell when drunk or high but this is the exception.  Do players indulge after the game, or tournament is over? Sure.  Ball golf?  Hey, the 19th hole is a part of the lexicon. The difference, our sister game is more established and the 19th hole is held in the course's own cocktail lounge.  Disc golf has no such luxury.  The parking lot serves as the 19th hole.

indulgence whether drinking, smoking or otherwise, is not the reason why disc golf gets scant media attention.  There is plenty of that in plenty of other sports. snowboarding was mentioned earlier in this thread. The game by its nature is not exciting in the same way snowboarding or X-Games type sports or mixed martial arts would be. The game is more sedate. Its a thinking game. The only visual hook is the fact that there are flying circles. As I mentioned before, there is not the same sex appeal as beach volleyball or soccer (just ask any woman what she thinks of soccer player's bodies).  Ball golf is not sexy either.  However, it has been around for a long time and has long since emerged from the fringe. Lots of people play it.  

Disc golf has been steadily growing over the past few years This is the right path.  More and more people including Jon's neighbor are aware of it.  This will lead to more people wanting to watch adn more demand for the game.  It will eventually make it to the airwaves.  If webcasts can improve we will be able to show the excitement and thrill of the game to more and more people.  It is a young sport. DGA is really a manufacturer.  I played disc golf in the 70's and have a Whammo Moonlighter.  We were an extreme minority then.  We are a lesser one now.

Every sport needs a story and more importantly, a star.  The Champ is a star.  Barry is a star.  However, you cannot compare them to Tiger Woods in terms of media appeal.  There is no comparison to Shawn White.  Nikko, on the other hand, may have some of that appeal.  Its time for him, his hair,  and Gateway to seek some local St. Louis area marketing and see if it can grow. Eventaually people will want to see the kid with the dreds who can throw it a mile and hit a basket from far away.  I thought that when Feldberg went on the Letterman show it was a step in the right direction. Maybe Avery should go on Survivor. In that light, maybe more of a "badboy"image would help grow the sport. When baseball was a younger sport we loved to hear about the Babe being drunk and full of hot dogs and then slugging home runs.  The game grew when he was involved. I am saying that a little tongue in cheek.

Regardless of the growth I agree that disc golf may never be a sport that you can really play without having a day job.  I do not foresee many people making a living at it for a long time. At best, pros may be able to aspire to make a living as course pros and compete in a  few tournaments, promote events and invest in the game...I foresee The Terry Millers of the world having a better chance to make a living off the sport than the Feldbergs.  .  

You nailed it David.

[smyith]

Yes! Dumping money into a sport makes the sport grow quicker. I don't see how you can even fathom an argument against that. I'll provide a list of sports that all sprang up professionally around a similar time.
Skateboarding
BMX (vert and street)
Mountain Biking
Snowboarding
Motocross (a lil' early in Europe)
Roller blading
Luge

These are just the few i can think of off the top my head. Do you notice something though? I do. All those sports see or have seen regular "air time" and coverage. And you know how they did it? Their own companies took the rick and pumped the money into it. Instead of million-dollar companies they became billion-dollar companies. You cannot generate a viable argument against that. You know luge had its chance and it just didn't generate the interest they hoped for. (i define interest to be when people not only want to watch the sport, they want to go try the sport). in other words luge was too crazy for most people. Mountain biking is considerably bigger in europe than the US. (For some reason people would rather watch cycling over mtn biking <shrug>). But the other held true and marketed and paid for it to be big. You cannot make money without money. That is just how it works in this day and age. This sport has so much marketability its amazing! People of all sorts can easily and cheaply play. Anyone can do it. Thats a marketing wet-dream.

[Chainmeister]

Yes! Dumping money into a sport makes the sport grow quicker. I don't see how you can even fathom an argument against that. I'll provide a list of sports that all sprang up professionally around a similar time.
Skateboarding
BMX (vert and street)
Mountain Biking
Snowboarding
Motocross (a lil' early in Europe)
Roller blading
Luge

These are all sports that will have some amount of shock value.  There are cable channels that just show the accidents in sports like those listed above.  We like to see bodies flying and people getting hurt. That happens in these sports.  It does not happen in disc golf.  Luge gets tv coverage only because its an olympic sport.  I suspect that disc golf is a more popular sport.  If it was not an olympic sport you would never see luge on TV. Mountain biking is very difficult to televise as its hard to set up cameras on many mountain trails to capture the action. It is easier to do so with road racing.  Bike racing, which I love, is not a popular tv sport in America..  There is a dedicated core of fans in the US. We get very limited coverage.  Perhaps disc golf can aspire to that kind of coverage. In Europe, its extremely popular.  Of course, there are spectacular crashes.  Disc golf does not have very sexy accidents.  Once again, I mention that word.  Who is kidding who-- sex sells.

Just throwing money at a sport will get it some coverage. Hoever, if it is not interesting it will not bee long lasting.  You say you need money to make money. I say you need a reason to make people want to invest money.

[Jon Brakel]

Smyith, I have two questions for you:

1) How can a sport succeed commercially if no one wants to watch it? I'm not saying that it can't but I don't know what the business model is. Almost no one wants to watch disc golf. At every tournament that I am a TD or a volunteer at, I talk to casual players that came out to play. One of the alternatives to playing the course that I offer up is to watch some of the best local pros play the course. Approximately all of these players opt to do something else than to watch someone play disc golf. Occasionally some will stick around and watch the pros throw their drives. They seem impressed with their skill, but they still don't watch any more. I have rarely seen players who are injured come out to watch a tournament even though they have the time. There are more PDGA members in Illinois than there are players that play tournaments. Even those guys don't come out to a tournament or two to watch. I think all of the sports you mentioned had a lot of spectators before they ever had TV. They also have lots of spectators for events that are smaller and not televised. So, if there are no viewers, what will drive the sport commercially?

2) If you had $1,000,000 of seed money to invest in disc golf, what would you do with it?